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Advice for Starting Your Own Training Consultancy

Jason Meucci and Eric Girard both left the comfort and stability of working inside of larger companies in order to start their own training consultancies. While the scheduling flexibility and opportunity to “be their own boss” have been nice, they shared with me some of the challenges they’ve faced and some advice they have for anyone out there who may be considering the idea of starting their own training business.


Brian Washburn: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Train Like You Listen, a weekly podcast about all things learning and development in bite-sized chunks. I’m Brian Washburn, I am your host. I’m also the Co-founder of this company that focuses on instructional design called Endurance Learning, which I’ll talk about shamelessly at the very end of this podcast. But enough about that. 

Today I’m joined by Eric Girard and Jason Meucci, both of whom I met through my time at the Association for Talent Development’s Puget Sound Chapter, where I was a volunteer, I was the President Elect, and then I was President, then I was Past President. And I had a chance to work with both Eric and Jason, who were also volunteers with the organization. I’m really excited to get into their conversation—or a conversation with them—about the idea of leaving the corporate world behind and going off on their own to create and deliver training for organizations. 

But before I get to that, I do need to share that our sponsor today is Soapbox by, well, Endurance Learning. Soapbox is an online tool that you can use for about 5 or 10 minutes, and you can take care of about 50 or 60% of the work when it comes to developing a live, instructor-led training. So basically you go in, you tell the computer how long your presentation is, how many people are going to attend, whether it is in-person or virtual, what your learning objectives are, and then Soapbox will instantly generate a training plan for you with clusters of training activities that are designed to help you accomplish your learning objectives. Don’t just listen to me babble on about it – you should try it out yourself for free. You can do that for two weeks if you go to Okay. Enough about that. 

I’m here with Jason and Eric. Jason is the Founder, Facilitator, and Chief Possibilities Officer for Leadership ROI Consulting. And Eric is the Principal Consultant at Girard Training Solutions. Thank you for joining me, gentlemen. How’s it going? 

Eric Girard: Really good. 

Jason Meucci: Really excited to be doing this. And I have to say, I want to find out more about Soapbox. I’m going to go on there. I’m going to give it that two-week free trial. That sounds great. 

Brian Washburn: I’d love to actually– do you guys just wanna not even talk about the questions that we had and we’ll just talk about Soapbox? 

Jason Meucci: Absolutely! 

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLING) Oh, we’ll save the audience from that. But thank you for that plug. I appreciate it, Jason, and we can talk more offline. 

Six-Word Bio

Brian Washburn: So we always let our guests introduce themselves, but we keep it short, so we limit it to six words. So for today’s topic of making a living as a training professional, if I was to introduce myself, I would say, “I get paid for being creative.” Jason, how would you introduce yourself to our audience in exactly six words? 

Jason Meucci: Well, I wanna first say, I really appreciate this, sort of, prompt or this exercise because it made me sort of think about it. And I think it helped me come up with a tagline or something I can use down the road somewhere. But what I came down to is, “Making a living, living my purpose.” And I think you could put either a comma or a semicolon in between the first and the second three words, or or leave it as it is. It has a lot of interpretations, but, “Making a living, living my purpose.” 

Brian Washburn: I love it. And I’m glad that I could help with that little, kind of, elevator pitch. 

Jason Meucci: It’s not the first time you’ve inspired me. 

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLES) How about you, Eric? How would you introduce yourself? 

Eric Girard: “I help new managers thrive.” It’s five. I’m sorry. 

Brian Washburn: How about you help new managers really thrive? 

Eric Girard: We’ll go with that. 

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLING) Well, whatever you want to say for six words, I know that there’s a lot more wisdom that you all can drop on the audience here. And so I wanna just get right into it by getting a little bit of your background before we talk about how you decided to kind of go off and do your own thing and make a living doing this. I wanna kind of take a look backwards and– because I know that you have different backgrounds. So I’d love to hear from each of you. We’ll start with Jason. How did you break into the world of learning and development in the first place? 

Transitioning from the Corporate World to Learning and Development

Jason Meucci: Yeah, I did– I spent 20 plus years in a very, very different life and a different career in the TV business and broadcast journalism. And then I did some employee communications work. But really this shift into this world truly came during– I’m not exaggerating, the last sort of 2 minutes of my last course in my 2.5-year graduate program at Gonzaga, where I got a Master’s in Organizational Leadership. And it was a leadership and team building course. And at the very, very end, I sort of got an invite to be a TA for the next offering of that course for some other Masters students the next time it came around. 

And so I did that. I couldn’t have been more excited to do it. And it went really, really well, and it just felt really, really natural to me. And it went so well that we actually ended up offering a PhD version a couple of semesters later. And then in between that time, a grad school classmate of mine from Gonzaga recommended me for a facilitator role at a global retail company that was starting a brand new leadership development program for managers from the ground up. And that was 2.5 or so years ago, and now I’m doing similar leadership development work for 4 different companies across all sorts of industries, along with my own team building and coaching practice. 

Brian Washburn: I love that kind of– you started a grad school program thinking you’re gonna go in one direction and the last two minutes of your final course brought you here. 

Eric, what’s your story? How did you get here? 

Eric Girard: For this, I’m gonna take you back to the 80s. I’m gonna take you back to new wave, to spiky hair– 

Brian Washburn: The best decade. 

Eric Girard: That’s right. That’s right. So I was really heavily involved in the Boy Scouts when I was a kid and loved it so much that after I earned my Eagle Scout, I kept going and became a member of the camp staff for my local summer camp. And so I spent several summers teaching kids how to paddle canoes and rowboats and swim—anything in, on, or under water—I was the H2O guru. And that’s where I really got my taste for wanting to see the light bulbs pop over people’s heads. So did that, kind of, in high school and college, and then discovered a ASTD, the American Society for Training and Development in the early 90s at CSU Sacramento, and got involved in the student chapter. And I was off and running. 

So I got a degree in Organizational Communication with emphasis in Training and Development. Right outta college, went to work, teaching people how to use their Macs and their PCs, when mice were still a new thing and people were holding the mouse upside down because they thought the tails should be at the back kind-of-a-thing.

So that’s where I got my start. And then I went after a couple years, got a Master’s degree in Intercultural Communication Training and Development, and wound up living and working in Australia. I eventually ended up in Silicon Valley and spent 20 years in Silicon Valley and worked for some of the biggest names in Silicon Valley, including Apple—all with an eye toward helping managers make that pivotal transition from being a great individual contributor to being a great people manager.

Brian Washburn: And I’m gonna stick with you, Eric, for just a minute, because, I’m kind of curious– we’ve talked about with both of you about your stories now, but what made you decide to go off on your own? Leave the safety and security of a regular nine to five job and start into this practice of consulting and contract work?

Starting Your Own Training Consulting Business

Eric Girard: Well, remember I spent 20 years in Silicon Valley, so in Silicon Valley, there is no such thing as safety and security in a job. It’s a very cutthroat place. It’s pretty crazy. So, at the end of my 20th year, my wife and I had been talking a lot about moving to the Seattle area, getting out of the bay area.

It was too expensive. It was too crowded. At the time, it was cheaper to buy a house up here. The Pacific Northwest has all the lifestyle accoutrements we want. You know, there’s water everywhere, hiking, mountain biking, backpacking. So, we made the move. And when we landed and we got to Silverdale and unpacked the apartment and I’m like, you know what? My heart is just not in another job search. I’ve been doing this for 30 years. I know what to do. So I started building a network and started building a company. So it was just kind of a natural time. You know, it’s like we had a big move, it was COVID, everything was up in the air anyway. So what the heck, let’s give it a shot.

Brian Washburn: Yeah, “leap and a net will appear” is something that I’ve been told a few times about this idea of going off on your own. 

Jason, I’m kind of curious of what your story was in terms of what made you decide to leap with that net of training and facilitation contracting/consulting work?

Jason Meucci: Well, I love that saying, and I have found it to be absolutely true. And I want to pile on what Eric said there, is a small part of this I will say is—I love that you pointed out, Eric—I don’t have the heart for a job search. Because trying to find a job, you know, even in the market we’ve had lately, is just such a grind and it can be so deflating and so demoralized. I just didn’t really want to go through that at the time. But I, you know, I wanna be clear in saying that at first I did not intentionally set out to be on my own. I never thought in a million years I would be, you know, owning my own business and doing my own thing. 

But even when I started out in this life, I didn’t really– even though I was doing the work I still didn’t have a vision for doing this as a fulltime, sort of, business. I knew it was a nice transition to what I thought was gonna be going back full time in-house somewhere. But I just kept getting more and more opportunities without really trying. I don’t know how I got so fortunate and so lucky, but I kept getting more and more references and referrals. And I started to realize that I actually have the ability to do this from a talent perspective. You remember, I was pretty new to the space at the time. And then I did start to get enough work to help me realize, you know, what I think I can actually make a comfortable living doing this without having to subject myself to the perils of toxic cultures, bad bosses, and a lack of meaningful contribution that so many of us have experienced and been frustrated by when we’re doing in-house work.

Brian Washburn: And I really love the, kind of, the defiance to, kind of, what is the normal routine that people sometimes get trapped into. And sometimes it works out, right? So for a lot of people, when it comes to, “Hey, I want the safety and security”, even though you can always be subject to layoffs or things like that. But the safety and security of a job that is going be there, it has benefits, it has guaranteed work. I’m gonna stick with you for a moment here, Jason, what are some of the things or the thing, maybe, that you are most anxious about when it comes to working for yourself and how do you get over it?

What Makes You Anxious When it Comes to Working for Yourself?

Jason Meucci: I’m glad that you pointed out benefits. That might be the one real thing that I miss about full-time, you know, work is having those perks. But,  you know, I’m making a decent enough living, I think, were I not so lucky, I would absolutely be anxious about making sure that I have a steady source of income. And I don’t know, maybe that day will come where I don’t have this, sort of, client base that I do now for whatever reasons. 

But, aside from that financial piece, I think what I miss and what I wouldn’t say makes me anxious, but what I really miss is just like having a team around me or a team to lead, or at least having a collaboration or a thought partner, you know, like I was used to having in the corporate world. You know, especially as I’m, you know, because I am new to this. So when I’m crafting a learning experience or shaping content, I really love to have somebody to sort of bounce ideas off of, kind of co-create together. I really miss that. 

Part of that is because I do–I lack certain skills, especially in the instructional design aspect of what we do. But, mostly I know– I’ve come to realize that if you look at like all the, like, whether it’s DiSC or Strengths or any of those assessments, all of them point very strongly to me functioning better in collaboration, in a group or at least with a partner. And so I know that I work better, I’m more creative and I’m just honestly more motivated when I’m working with someone else. And I’ve been really, really lucky that at pretty much all of my big clients, I have, sort of, an in-house partner that can, sort of, play that role of thought partner. That gives me somebody to collaborate with on a daily basis. 

Brian Washburn: Well, yeah, I–you know, when I left the world of full-time work, that was one of the things that I was most anxious about—leaving an office where there was always somebody who you could get up and walk over to their cubicle and talk to them, to the idea that I was going to be by myself. And even when I started with Endurance Learning, it was myself and my business partner, Tim, and now we’re nine people. And so we do have an opportunity to bounce ideas around. But we’re all remote and so we do need to find, you know, how do we do this? 

And I’ve found– and I’d be interested to hear, Eric, what your biggest anxiety is, but this was definitely one of mine too, Jason. So what you’re saying resonates with me. I found that like coffees—going out to have coffee with somebody or, you know, in the age of COVID “virtual coffee”, which opened up the whole world to being able to, you know, kind of connect people, as opposed to just people in my own, kind of, community. But yeah, I’m with you. I think that creating good engaging creative training, does require some collaboration and bouncing some ideas around. 

Eric, I’m going to toss it over to you in terms of what is something that you have been most anxious about when it comes to working for yourself and how did you get over it?

Eric Girard: You know, for me it’s pipeline. So I am an excellent facilitator, instructional designer, presenter, relationship-builder—that’s what I do. Sales, marketing, bookkeeping, legal—that’s all outta my wheelhouse. So I was really lucky because when I started– when I hung out my own shingle, I immediately got two big clients. And was really busy just with these two clients. And so I didn’t pay much attention to business development because, “I’m set, I’m set. This is great. I’m all set.” And then, one of those projects wound down and it was a real “oh, blea” moment where it’s like, oh dear there’s nobody in the wings to fill that slot.

So as a result I got hooked up with Deb Zahn, The Craft of Consulting, who then turned me onto Paul Higgins, of Paul Higgins Mentoring. And now I have a team of people that helped me do business development. My “Sales Sherpa”, as he likes to call himself is in Manila. So we– you know, I have a global team as well JC’s in Manila and my Social Media Manager, Diana, is in Bogota.

But before I had them, it was all me and trying to keep the pipeline full while also designing, developing, and delivering content was very nerve wracking. So I feel really blessed that now I’ve got folks working on keeping the pipeline full, so that I can focus on what I do best and they can focus on what they do best and they love, and I don’t have to stress over it.

So that’s what worries me is pipeline. Because, you know, like working at a company, there’s a sales team. There’s somebody out there bringing in business so that the company can function. With GTS it’s, you know, it all comes down to me. And so I’ve had to augment my weaknesses by hiring on a staff. So now my team is four, including me and thank God cause, I’d be sunk otherwise. 

Brian Washburn: Yeah. What you’re talking about goes to the idea that, you know, just because you enjoy training, but don’t necessarily want to work for, you know, kind of, a traditional employer doesn’t mean that it just happens, right? 

Eric Girard: No!

Brian Washburn: You have to find that work. You have to– it’s a business suddenly, and there’s a lot more that goes into a business than just the facilitation or just the instructional design or just the eLearning development, whatever it was. I’m sorry. Jason, did I cut you off? Were you going to–?

Jason Meucci: Well, no, it’s great to come after what you just shared because it, sort of, even better sets up my– what I was gonna say that, you know, being on my own, like this has given me a whole new appreciation for that adage about, you know, the difference between working in the business and working on the business. 

Eric Girard: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jason Meucci: And I know it’s been a challenge for me as well for all the same things that Eric laid out so well. Working on the business is certainly a challenge. I love working in the business. I don’t necessarily love working on the business so much. 

Eric Girard: The thing that makes me sad is I have to let go of stuff. Like, I thought I was gonna be my webmaster, cause I love tinkering with websites, but I’m not good enough at it. I’m not fast enough at it. And frankly, I cost too much. It makes more sense for me to sub out web design and graphic design than for me to mess around with it and do it by myself. So I learned early don’t do your own books, don’t do your own website. Like, bring on experts who will do that happily and you won’t get frustrated and you can focus on what you’re excellent at and, you know, closing deals—which is ultimately what Jason and I need to be doing is closing deals and selling deals.

Brian Washburn: Yeah. And so, I think this is getting us into this kind of final question here for anybody who’s listening right now and thinking of going out on their own, what’s one piece of advice that you might share with them?

Advice for Starting Your Own Training Consultancy

Jason Meucci: Who do you wanna start with? 

Brian Washburn: Yeah. We’ll start with you, Jason. 

Jason Meucci: Okay. Well, I think, you know, I would be–I think I would be hesitant to say that I would honestly recommend it for everyone. But to the point of your question, if you are already thinking about it, you should probably do it. You should probably answer that call because my guess is that that’s your purpose on line one. If it’s already tugging on you, I would give it a shot. And there are tons of people out there who have successfully made the same jump that Eric and I have and are much happier, much more fulfilled, because of it. It doesn’t mean it’s easy. Certainly I would say it’s not easy, but there are such a wealth of people and resources out there to help you get up and running that, again, if you were thinking about it, I would answer that call. 

Eric Girard: To build on what you said, Jason, I would say, yeah. I mean, if your heart is in it, if you love learning and development and it’s part of you, and you eat, sleep, drink, breathe it–then consider it. But I would say be ready to invest. So think about all those startups that have huge fundraising routes, you know, where they generate millions of dollars and they run cash flow negative for a period of time until they get their feet under them. Depending on how lucky you are, you may have to invest some of your own cash to keep things going to pay the bookkeeper, to pay the “Sales Sherpa,” to pay the people until you start landing the lucrative jobs. So that’s something that I would encourage folks to keep in mind, is that just because you hang out a sign doesn’t mean the business is going to come flowing in, regardless of how good a networker you are, no matter how technically excellent you are as a trainer and facilitator. You still have to establish yourself and that takes a lot of work, and it could involve some investment so just be ready for that. 

Brian Washburn: I’m gonna end here with the question portion–then we’re gonna get into some fun here–-to see if either of you have any shameless plugs. Eric, is there anything that you wanna plug shamelessly? 

Eric Girard: I would plug myself. I would plug Girard Training Solutions. We are all about management development. So if you’re looking, especially, to help new managers transition from being high performing individual contributors to great people managers. We have a suite of products. We’ve got 20 programs that are ready to go. I’m certified in DiSC. I just got certified in Situational Leadership–SLII– plus a whole list of other certs. So we can be a one-stop-shop for helping your new managers get up to speed quickly. 

Brian Washburn: Eric, how do people find you? 

Eric Girard: or Eric@GirardTrainingSolutions and Girard’s “GIR”

Brian Washburn: Perfect. How about you, Jason? 

Jason Meucci: Yeah. Well, something I’ve been doing over the last few months, as part of my team building facilitations is an exercise I came up with myself that brings teams along on what I call a “Recognition Expedition,” that gives colleagues an opportunity to kind of have some fun while sharing really personally meaningful recognition and appreciation for each other–not so much for what people have accomplished or achieved, but really for who they are and how they showed up for others in that process. And I’ve honestly yet to lead one of these experiences that did not generate, sort of, genuine tears in both the people giving and receiving recognition, because people just don’t realize how they’re valued by their colleagues. And it just really brings up a lot of warm and fuzzies. 

In fact, the last time I did it, we had a very, sort of, hard-out allotted time period. And when that time was up, the senior leader of the team who was in the room said, “actually, you know what, let’s keep going. We need more of this.” And that was really gratifying as a facilitator for something that I came up with myself that was having such an impact that the senior leader said, “you know what? We can blow off the next thing on our agenda to keep going on this.” And so what I’m what I’m plugging, really, is I’m looking forward to hopefully, guiding lots of teams through a “Recognition Expedition” as we get closer to the holidays and leaders are looking for really unique and end-of-the-year celebrations that really have some meaning. And so I’m hoping to be doing a lot of those this fall. 

Brian Washburn: And how do people find you, Jason? 

Jason Meucci: They can find me either on LinkedIn, Jason Meucci, M-E-U-C-C-I, or you can email me at jason

Train Like You Listen Trivia Challenge

Trivia Challenge

Brian Washburn: Perfect. All right. Before we leave, I do have one last challenge for both of you. And this is called Train Like you Listen Trivia, dun dun, dun. We need a jingle for that. 

Jason Meucci: Yeah. 

Brian Washburn: But I’ve explained the rules before we started this recording. So I’m gonna ask some questions. If you know the answer, buzz in by saying your name. The first person to buzz in will have control and they will get a point. If you have a correct answer, you’ll get a point. If you have an incorrect answer, the other person has an opportunity to answer that. So are you ready here? 

Eric Girard: Yes. 

Brian Washburn: All right. First question is who wrote the book? The adult learner and is widely seen as the father of adult learning theory, 

Eric Girard: Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric.

Eric Girarad: Malcolm Knowles. 

Brian Washburn: Malcolm Knowles. Eric is up one to nothing. Next question. What is Brian’s favorite food?

No guesses. My favorite food is ice cream. If you want to get more specific, it’s– 

Eric Girard: Oh, I was gonna guess cheeseburgers. 

Jason Meucci: I should have known that. 

Eric Girard: Yeah. I don’t see how this is a learning question. I object. 

Jason Meucci: Well, you learned what Brian’s favorite food is. 

Brian Washburn: That’s right.

Eric Girard: That’s true. I did learn. Yes. I’m a lifelong learner.

Brian Washburn: Yeah. I mean, you knew Malcolm Knowles, you didn’t know ice cream. Then you just learned something. So. All right. Next question. True or false: learning styles.

Jason Meucci: Jason. 

Brian Washburn: Jason. 

Jason Meucci: True. 

Brian Washburn: That is incorrect. Eric, do you wanna give it a shot?

Eric Girard: True or false learning styles–I’m confused by the question. 

Brian Washburn: That is the question. Learning styles.

Eric Girard: Whether they exist? 

Brian Washburn: Are they true or false? (CHUCKLING)

Eric Girard: I was going to say true. So I’m afraid I’m going to learn again. 

Brian Washburn: All right. We’re learning. Yes. If you wanted to take a look more deeply at this idea of auditory-visual-kinesthetic learners, there is actually no research, but Will Thalheimer does have a $10,000 challenge if somebody can actually provide research that says that learning styles are– actually will impact outcomes of learning events. 

Eric Girard: Oh man, I quote that in a class. 

Jason Meucci: Ooh. 

Brian Washburn: Yeah. See? Train Like You Listen is bringing the knowledge today. So stay away from this idea of learning styles. Now people do have learning preferences, but there is no research that actually contributes to this idea that if you were to create something just for auditory learners, they would do better than if you’d created a well-rounded– 

Jason Meucci: That’s what was giving me hesitancy when I answered. I was like, if this is false it’s because there are pre– he’s gonna say these are preferences and not styles, but, um–

Eric Girard: Clever.

Brian Washburn: All right. Scoreboard has Eric at one, Jason at zero. Next question is which professor at Hogwarts tended to wear pink outfits and was one of the most hated villains in the Harry Potter series. 

Eric Girard: Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric. 

Eric Girard: Oh, what was the one that looked like a toad? She– um–  Umbridge. 

Brian Washburn: Professor Dolores Umbridge is correct. Very nicely done. Eric with two Jason looking to get on the board.

Jason Meucci: No fair, he has kids.

Brian Washburn: (LAUGHS) He might get on the board here with this question. What technology company owns teams? 

Jason Meucci: Jason. 

Brian Washburn: Jason. 

Jason Meucci: Microsoft. 

Brian Washburn: Microsoft is correct. We have a two-to-one battle here. Within five years, in what year did Articulate release Storyline 1?

So take a guess. And if you’re within five years, I’ll give it to you. 

Eric Girard: Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric. 

Eric Girard: 2004. 

Brian Washburn: That is incorrect. You wanna give it a guess, Jason? 

Jason Meucci: I’ll give it a guess. I would’ve thought this would’ve been right in Eric’s wheelhouse because he has that expertise, but I’ll say 1998. 

Brian Washburn: Also incorrect. So Storyline 1 didn’t come out until 2012. 

Jason Meucci: Oh, went the wrong direction. 

Brian Washburn: Yeah, that was– 

Eric Girard: Yeah, just cause I’m certified in it doesn’t mean that they tested me on when the first version came out. 

Brian Washburn: (LAUGHING) I remember the buzz around it when it first came out and people wanted to use it and I was like, what is this? All right. Next question. Very important questions. Let’s see how well you do here. What scent is a red Mr. Sketch marker

Eric Girard: Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric.

Eric Girard: Cherry. 

Brian Washburn: Cherry is correct. We have Eric at three. Jason is at one. 

Eric Girard: Mr. Sketch is very important, Jason. 

Jason Meucci: Well, I knew that one, but I didn’t get my mouth on the buzzer.

Eric Girard: (LAUGHING)

Brian Washburn: (LAUGHING) Oh, it’s element number 19 on the– 

Eric Girard: Oh, yeah. Which I have the book for, by the way. 

Brian Washburn: Periodic Table of Amazing Learning Experiences. Next question. What company makes the Post-It? 

Eric Girard: Oh– Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric. 

Eric Girard: 3M. 

Brian Washburn: 3M is correct, Eric is in the barn.

Jason Meucci: Oh, I had that one too. 

Brian Washburn: He’s one point away from victory. Oh, next question. Who wrote the book Map It: The Hands on Guide to Strategic Training Design?

No guesses. 

Jason Meucci: Jason will guess Eric Girard. 

Brian Washburn: Eric Gerard. 

Eric Girard: No, I have not written a book yet. 

Brian Washburn:Yet is the operative word. 

Eric Girard: There’s a book, there’s a book in there somewhere. I just don’t know what it is. 

Brian Washburn: Be careful. Be careful with what you promise, cause then you’re gonna have to actually write it. It’s kind of cool to– actually the idea of having somebody say, “Hey, will you write a book?” and saying “yes.” And then actually having to write it is a whole, it’s a whole other story. 

The answer to that one is Cathy Moore is the author. 

Eric Girard: Oh, Cathy Moore is awesome. 

Brian Washburn: Cathy Moore rocks. Next question. What is the seventh letter in the English alphabet? 

Jason Meucci: Jason.

Brian Washburn: Jason. 

Jason Meucci:

Brian Washburn: G is correct. 

Eric Girard: G for Girard. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.Thank you very much. 

Brian Washburn: The comeback is on. We have Jason at two, Eric at four. Next question is yes or no. Do people have a longer attention span than goldfish? 

Eric Girard: Eric. 

Brian Washburn: Eric. 

Eric Girard: I’m gonna go with no 

Brian Washburn: Is incorrect. 

Eric Girard: Ah! 

Brian Washburn: Jason, do you wanna try to– 

Jason Meucci: I’m going to take a guess and say yes.

Brian Washburn: There’s a whole thing that was going around a little while back about how people have attention spans that are shorter than seven seconds or nine seconds or whatever the gold fish’s attention span is. And that was a total myth. And we can get into that more, but both that and learning styles, if you wanna pick up Clark Quinn’s book about Millennials, Goldfish and more, he has a bunch of myths that he busts in his. 

Jason Meucci: I was gonna say you’ve debunked. A couple of things for us already, Brian.

Eric Girad: Mm-hmm

Brian Washburn: Yeah, you are welcome. And listeners, you are welcome as well. Hopefully you’re learning along here. Next question in– oh, it’s another question about a year. In what year was PowerPoint unleashed on the public?

Eric Girard: Eric.

Brian Washburn: Eric.

Eric Girard: 1996.

Brian Washburn: Incorrect.

Eric Girard: But close. 

Jason Meucci: Jason will guess 2008.

Brian Washburn: The first version of PowerPoint was actually unleashed on the public back in 1987.

Eric Girard: Oh! Oh my.

Brian Washburn: (CHUCKLING) Next question. What does the acronym LMS stand for? 

Jason Meucci: Jason 

Eric Girard: Eric 

Brian Washburn: Jason 

Jason Meucci: Learning Management System 

Brian Washburn: Is correct. We have a tie game, four to four. Next question wins. When you’re using Microsoft Word, what is the keyboard shortcut to copy something?

Eric Girard: Eric

Jason Meucci: Oh…

Brian Washburn: Eric.

Eric Girard: If you’re on a Mac it’s Command-C.

Brian Washburn: And if you’re on a PC? 

Eric Girard: Control-C. 

Brian Washburn: Correct! You get a bonus point too. Eric wins five and a half, with his bonus point to Jason’s four. So close. That was– that was the closest version of this game that we have played so far. Well, thank you both for joining us. I’m sure that people are like, all right, can we wrap this up please?

So we are wrapping this up. Jason, Eric, thank you so much for joining and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Train Like You Listen. If you would find that somebody else might find today’s conversation about making a living as a trainer to be important, go ahead and pass a link along to this podcast. Go ahead and, also, like us or comment on how much you like this podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

If you’re interested in learning more about a broad range of learning and development strategies, and you haven’t yet reached out to Jason or Eric, you can always pick up a copy of my book What’s your formula? Combine Learning Elements For Impactful Training at And until next time, happy training everyone.

This week’s podcast is sponsored by Soapbox. Sign up today for a free demo below.

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