Whether you are working in an NGO or not, this discussion with Gretchen Regehr from Conservation International will have you thinking more deeply about the role of both talent management and talent development in your organization.
Brian: Welcome everyone to another episode of Train Like You Listen, a podcast about all things learning and development in bite sized chunks. I’m Brian Washburn. I’m your host. I’m also the co-founder of a company called Endurance Learning. We put together all sorts of training programs, whether it’s in person or virtual or elearning. And I can talk a lot more about that, but that’s not why I’m here. I’m joined here today by Gretchen Regehr. And we’re going to talk about a topic that seems to confuse a lot of training professionals. And sometimes it comes down to how we define things.
But before I get to that, I do want to let you know that we’re brought to you by Endurance Learning’s, Train the Trainer programs. If you and your team need some help with your training design and delivery skills. Drop me a note at brian@endurancelearning.com. We have full and half-day virtual programs as well as two and three-day in-person sessions. If you want more information, go ahead and visit us at endurancelearning.com/train-the-trainer.
Introduction
Okay. Enough about those shameless plugs. I’m here with Gretchen Regehr, who is the Senior Director for Talent Management at Conservation International. And before we get into the questions, I want to have Gretchen introduce herself. And in the spirit of keeping this brief, Gretchen, how would you describe what you do or what your career has been using exactly six words?
Gretchen: Hello, and thanks for having me. It’s nice to spend some time with you. Boiling it down to six words, I would say
partnering with others to seek their potential.
Brian: And we’re going to jump into that because today’s topic is really around this idea of talent management especially in NGOs, so non-governmental organizations, whether you are working in global health or whether you’re working in environmental issues, whatever it might be that’s kind of the focus because you work with Conservation International. It’s certainly transferable to lots of other folks, but let’s drill down into the world of NGOs and what talent management could mean there.
Gretchen’s Journey
You and I have known each other for a number of years through our work and my work in previous roles So I really appreciate you giving me some time here today. I’ve had the privilege of hearing this story a little bit. But I would love just to start by asking you to share just a little bit about your journey and how you found yourself working in the area of talent development or talent management at Conservation International.
Gretchen: Sure. Well, like so many of us in training and learning kinds of positions, We came to it from other things. Early in my career, I spent about a year and a half in what was then Czechoslovakia. I was actually there when it split, working for the Economics University of Bratislava. I taught marketing and entrepreneurism courses, and it was amazing. After that, I came back to the U. S. I was working in communications and marketing for a while, but my heart kept being called back to international development kinds of work, and I had a boss who probably recognized really before I did that I was not very fulfilled in what I was doing and he allowed me to take two long leaves of absence. One, I worked for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in West Africa. The second was to work with emerging NGOs in Romania. And these experiences really clarified for me that I was really motivated by human-centered, mission-driven work.
And then while working for a large humanitarian organization that I worked for for many years I kept brushing up against training and capacity building and what I was doing. And finally, I recognized that this was really a wonderful convergence of things that I was passionate about and good at communicating — understanding what motivates others seeking to find creative and engaging answers and solutions helping people to achieve what they want to achieve.
And this was in a time when elearning was really beginning to take off. It was still kind of clunky and it was coding heavy but it was game-changing for global nonprofit organizations that didn’t always have the money to bring people together in person. So that’s where it kind of started for me. And then I really professionalized in this area. I went back to grad school and I learned about the nuts and bolts around adult learning and motivation. And that was where it all began.
Brian: So as a returned Peace Corps volunteer myself, when I came back from working abroad, I wanted to get back into this world of international development or working for an international nonprofit or whatever it might’ve been. I found that the only jobs that I was finding were working around contract management, which was not the work that I wanted to be doing. I love hearing your story a little bit about how you were in some different places and found your passion with this idea of training and elearning was just kind of emerging. And it’s super powerful when we’re trying to work with a headquarters in one area.
How Do You Define Talent Development and Talent Management?
And for me, as a Peace Corps volunteer, I was delivering a lot of training and you keep using this term talent development or talent management. And I think that term can mean different things to different people. How do you or how does Conservation International define talent development or talent management?
Gretchen: Yeah, well, I’ll be clear. I think my work is both talent development and talent management. To me, it is about being a strategic partner at whatever level is needed. Of course, this is around things like workplace training and effectiveness and learning that supports effectiveness in positions.
Growing towards an organization’s priorities, growing your staff towards an organization’s priorities. And it’s also very much about talent processes, like talent mapping, succession planning that identify both the talent and clearly understanding the needs. And then it’s about working creatively to fill the organizational needs while motivating and growing individuals.
About 4 years ago, I became a certified International Coaching Federation coach, and this has really been transformative in how I approach talent development. It enables me, in addition to the big global training initiatives that we do, to also see talent development as a really individualized process as well. That involves goal setting, both personal and professional. It’s a process of exploration, of discovery, of reflection and growth, to really support people in unlocking whatever it is that gets them to their potential to where they want to be.
Of course, in a fast growing organization, I can’t always work with everyone individually, but bringing some of that wisdom of coaching to our manager trainings, for example, to support having better managers is one way to infuse some of this into it. And I do get to work with some of our new country directors, for example, in structured coaching or with some of our emerging leaders as well, so, kind of bringing these ideas of individualized focus, as well as big organizational needs and finding what those sweet spots are.
Training and Talent Development: How Are They Different?
Brian: I really appreciate how you’re defining it. A lot of times when people see a performance issue or some other type of challenge in an organization, the comment will naturally come out to say, “oh, we need training.” How is talent development related to training? How is it similar? How is it different? Maybe it’s a subset. But a lot of times people see an issue and they see the solution as training. So what’s the relationship there?
Gretchen: Yeah, and I suppose in the NGO world, we might look at this differently than large corporations that have very defined and niche positions in each of these areas. But I think for all of us who work in learning development teams and NGOs, we know this is a starting point for most to come to us for support. There’s an assumption that training is going to be an answer. And many times it is, but it’s really great to be able to partner with others who trust that the solution might be something else. And I am never offended by that as we discuss potential projects, and maybe we land on possibilities that aren’t training as a solution.
We want to get to what works best for our learners. And I think what is most common for us, honestly, is that a starting point may be training in the discussion. But then we dig into needs, try to understand the gaps, and maybe we land on something that is more just-in-time kinds of things. Whether it’s learner support at points of needs, whether it’s job aids, clarified policies and processes, micro learnings. We find that we’re doing lots of little short videos placed in the right place in the right moment, well-organized intranet sites, communities of practice.
A lot of our, sort of, internal partners come to us sometimes recognizing that the conversation is going to expand to some of these other areas as well. As a training person, of course, and, you know, nothing beats a training that is totally hitting the mark. The learners are engaged with the content and with each other. And there’s just this magic that happens. But in the end, I think the training is really about supporting the development of specific competencies or skills that have been identified and I think of talent development being more inclusive. It’s more about professional development and career activities as well.
Brian: I love that answer and, you know, when you’re working for an NGO, my experience has been that we have an amazing, kind of, save the world type mission. We have limited resources to carry that mission out. So that means that we need each person working for our team and our organization to be at the top of their game.
What Are the Advantages of Talent Development?
Listening to you talk about talent management, it’s a little squishy, which then makes the decision-making to do something more difficult, right? It can lead to some paralysis or “I’m not sure what we should do.” Whereas training is clean. It can be an instructor lead training thats in person. It could be a webinar. It could be an elearning, but it’s clean, right? There’s a start and a finish. Did somebody finish it? Yes, did they complete it and check it off?
Whereas talent management seems like it’s a little bit squishier, a little bit more difficult, takes a little bit more effort. So especially like the leadership of an NGO, how should they be looking at talent development and why should they be taking a look at this bigger picture type of initiative, talent development, as opposed to something that’s clean — let’s create the training, let’s deploy it, let’s get it out there. Let’s have people take it and complete it.
Gretchen: Yeah, well, I think it’s the forever challenge in NGOs are likely not going to have the funding that we think we might need in order to do all of the supported capacity building for all the needs that are identified. And this never goes away as long as you work in an NGO, these donated dollars need to be used in the very best ways and sometimes, developing our staff in the robust ways we might prefer isn’t always going to make it to the top of the list.
So, yes, I think learning and development teams become very agile and need to wear a lot of hats in both the talent development and talent management spaces to support our staff as flexibly as possible. And I think it’s really critical that leadership has a handle on talent. I do believe whether it is through some of these talent management processes, active succession planning discussions, or talent mapping, or divisional talent management committees, which is something that we have at CI these keep talent-focused discussions happening on a regular basis. And that’s when we’re uncovering needs, providing the support. We’re talking about things like stretch assignments and growth opportunities for high performers and understanding where the gaps are. So, through these larger constructs, sometimes we’re getting to what those priority learning areas might be, but also at the same time, looking at key individuals, key gaps. In our structure we also have HR business partners who work closely with each of our groups and who have a handle on talent within a group, then we can look at individual needs where support is warranted, but also have more broad look at what the talent needs and gaps are.
Brian: Gretchen Regehr, thank you so much for sharing the idea that in order to grow people it’s more than just training. I really appreciate that before we go, can you share a little bit more about what your mission is, what you do, and where people can find more information about CI.
Gretchen: Sure. Conservation International is a really incredible organization that focuses on an approach to conservation that puts human well-being on an equal footing with environmental goals. So that really speaks to me. We respect human rights, gender equality, and we create opportunities for local communities to earn a living while also helping nature. So all of this happens while we’re doing on-the-ground fieldwork, innovations in science and conservation finance, and in working at policy at all different levels.
And this is all in support of securing the critical biodiverse spots in the world. And you can learn more about all of this by going to our website, it’s conservation.org and you can receive information and updates on conservation news by signing up on that website. And of course, anyone is welcome to contact me at any time. I love meeting and talking to my learning peers.
Brian: Well, Gretchen, thank you again so much. Thank you everyone else for listening and until next time, happy training everyone.
